Do we finally have closure on conference realignment?

From John Millea at the Star Tribune, we have this article talking about how the Classic Lake is approaching an agreement which will address their scheduling problems with a small league.  Long story short, they get games but have to stop looking at neighboring leagues.  Fun quid pro quo and hopefully it brings some closure to this whole realignment mess.  The idea of having the Classic Lake remain at 5 teams (Eden Prairie replacing Armstrong) and possibly going through this whole hassle again was certainly not appealing.

Lake Conference no more

From John Millea of the Star Tribune, all of the previous Lake conference members except Eden Prairie have decided to go their own way and add in Prior Lake for a new 10 team league. As Millea had previously reported, Prior Lake was looking to leave the Missota. Upon review, the Bloomington schools decided not to join the Missota and stuck with their Lake kin. Now we're back to 5 with Eden Prairie and the 4 ugly ducklings. How long until that group dissolves and we're back to square 1?

Czar's Note 9/3/09: According to the Pioneer Press, this new conference will be called the South Suburban Conference. How original but they outgrew Dakota County so that wouldn't work and Minnesota River was already taken. That gives us more suburban soup with the Classic Suburban, North Suburban, Northwest Suburban and their backwards cousin, the Suburban East. Let the remainder of the Lake schools call themselves the Suburban West and we'll have all the geography covered.

Is a Missota makeover next?

So its no secret that the suburban schools in the Missota have been growing like weeds (Farmington, Shakopee, Prior Lake) and could be outgrowing that league when compared to New Prague, Northfield etc. With that in mind, we get the news from John Millea that Prior Lake now wants out of the Missota and may look to join the potentially orphaned 5 (4 Classic Lake and Eden Prairie). He even mentions that the Bloomington schools may join the Missota instead of the new Dakota County Conference. That's a very interesting twist and to me somewhat baffling.

Combine that with news from Red Wing that the Wingers want out of the Missota too (competitive disadvantage with metro schools) and are looking at a return to the Big 9 (now 10). So put it all together and we could end up with this. Geographically I can buy this except Prior Lake. But Prior Lake comes in over 2000 in enrollment so moving in with the big west metros makes sense.

Dakota County Conference
Lakeville North
Lakeville South
Burnsville
Eagan
Apple Valley
Eastview
Rosemount
(7 defectors from the Lake to the new league)

Missota Conference
Shakopee
New Prague
Northfield
Farmington *** Move to Dakota County Conference would put both leagues at 8 teams, makes lots of sense for scheduling and competitive balance.
Holy Angels
Chaska
Chanhassen
Bloomington Jefferson
Bloomington Kennedy
(Hutchinson, Red Wing and Prior Lake out. Chaska, Chanhassen and the Bloomingtons in.)

(Classic) Lake Conference
Eden Prairie
Hopkins
Wayzata
Edina
Minnetonka
Prior Lake
(5 left overs from the Lake + Prior Lake)

Lake Conference, your move

So the MSHSL voted unanimously today (with the Lake Conference in attendance and not speaking) to move the remaining Classic Lake conference members to the Lake Conference in 2010-2011. Now the threat of all the current members leaving and sticking Eden Prairie with the newcomers looms large. As I wrote in July, this would could start the mess all over again.

More from John Millea of the Star Tribune on the reaction here.

New Missota Conferences takes shape

The Missota Conference has officially accepted Chaska and Chanhassen as new members starting in the 2010-2011 season. That comes as no surprise. That puts the league at 9 teams as Hutchinson moves to the Wright County at the same time. So that leaves the 2010-2011 Lake Conference at 14 teams. John Millea wrote at the end of June that the current Lake schools voted to oust Eden Prairie which would leave them with the 4 Classic Lake schools that the MSHSL added.

So what do we end up with as we're down to 14 players in the game.

John Millea has long reported the formation of a Dakota County conference. While it was initially rumored to be looking at Hastings and Farmington, it looks more now like the half of that Lake of the south of Minnesota River will be together. On the other side, you'll have Eden Prairie, Minnetonka, Edina, Hopkins and Wayzata (though the last 2 appealed their decision, it was probably denied last week). The wild cards here are the 2 Bloomington schools. Travel wise you could argue for placement north of the river with Eden Prairie et al, tradition would argue staying with the old Lake members that are south of the river. That leaves 2 leagues of 7 (if the Bloomington schools go west) or 9 and 5 .

Remember that the MSHSL doesn't have the authority to form leagues, just the ability to place members who can't get in a league and enforce a 5 member minimum in a league. So while the MSHSL may see another 5 team league and the issues it presents, they wouldn't be able to do anything about it as conferences have their own bylaws on membership.

How about this for crazy. Bloomington schools go south to a 9 team Dakota County Conference. The 4 Classic Lake schools then vote to kick out Eden Prairie just like they did Armstrong and we're right back where we started. The 4 Classic Lake schools would be without a league again (along with Eden Prairie), they would apply to leagues and be denied. The MSHSL would then have to assign them, but where to? Dakota County? Obviously not. Northwest Suburban? The MSHSL didn't want any of the schools there this time and the NW Suburban didn't want them. Does the MSHSL throw it right back in their face and put the 5 schools back together? Could they or would that break the bylaws of "forming" a league? With 5 teams, the Classic Lake schools aren't much better off than they are now, so why not go through it all again and force the MSHSL's hand.

While I would like to see the Bloomington schools and Richfield join up with those remaining 5 schools for a nice geographical 8 team league, I'm not sure Richfield would be that competitive in that league. You'd have Minnetonka/EP, Hopkins/Wayzata, Bloomingtons, Edina/Richfield as rivalries.

Everybody to the Lake?

John Millea's blog today has all 4 of the remaining Classic Lake schools being assigned to the Lake. Last Monday, each of the schools had an opportunity to present its case for where they wanted to play. Could this be a pre-emptive strike to put 16 in the Lake and then they split into 8 and 8 on the their own? I still don't get why Chaska and Chanhassen want to go to the Missota only to outgrown that league down the road, especially when Chaska has already been there and done that. The NW Suburban and the N Suburban still make no sense with 11 each. Cooper needs to get out out the N Suburban in a bad way.

A reminder that the realignment plans I put together in August 2007 (which I still think make more sense than anything I've heard so far) can be found at these links.

AAAA Realignment here

Remainder of the realignment plan here

Read John Millea's full update here.

Thoughts from the latest MSHSL meeting

Some interesting developments from this week's MSHSL meeting.

1) Teams will be limited to a total of 3 scrimmages/jamborees.

I like a limit, but I don't know that it was ever really an issue. This has more practical impact than our next item.

2) Teams may not travel outside of neighboring states/provinces (thank you Manitoba) unless its a round trip of less than 600 miles.

This is totally ridiculous on a couple of accounts. First, how much is this actually happening and how much of an "advantage" is it. Second, most of those trips are funded by the event being attended (e.g the Hopkins trip to NY this year) or by fundraisers by the team (e.g baseball trips over spring break). I much prefer Wisconsin's solution of saying you can play 22 games if they're all in Wisconsin or neighboring states, otherwise you only get 20. Admittedly Wisconsin had Milwaukee schools going to Chicago and outstate all the time so they felt a pressing need for change. Maybe there's something to a pre-emptive strike. But if a tournament is paying Hopkins to come play, I want to see our Minnesota team to be able to go and showcase our talent.

3) From John Millea's post tonight, a 7 person committee will meet next Monday to start the process of placing the 4 remaining Classic Lake schools in leagues. Other than that, just a rehash of the expected. 2 to the Lake, 2 to the NW Suburban, appeals, complaints etc. Then the real fun begins with the Lake Conference finally seeing they're in this whether they want to be or not. Millea has predicted for a while that Chaska and Chanhassen would move to the Missota which would bring that league to 9 teams (remember Hutchinson is leaving for the Wright County). You'd end up with 13 in the NW Suburban so something would have to happen there. As much as I think Armstrong should have joined the North Suburban to be with Cooper and set that league at 12 teams, you know they won't be leaving after all the trouble they went through to get in that league.

East side issues in conference realignment.

The South Washington County Bulletin brings us news that Park may be looking to leave the Suburban East once all of the Classic Lake issues are sorted out. According to the article, Park would have a much different balance in the student population than district compadres Woodbury and East Ridge. The article makes a very good case for moving based on a similar situation at Mounds View (a fellow Suburban East member) and Irondale (also in the Mounds View district but a member of the North Suburban).

Interesting news and their logic makes sense. Only 1 minor problem, where would they go? The Classic Suburban or a new league with some of the Classic Suburban? The St. Paul City, I think not.

(Czar's Note 5/1/09: For the ironic counterpoint to this, we bring you this from the Pioneer Press that says Park isn't going anywhere)

Conference Realignment almost had another big move

John Millea reporting today that the Lake Conference almost had a split on April 1st but 1 more school needed to jump in. Since that didn't happen it looks like the MSHSL will take over in September. They would assign Minnetonka and Edina to the Lake Conference and Wayzata and Hopkins to the NW Suburban. That's all from John's article. Now to my thoughts.

The MSHSL assignments would push the Lake to 14 teams and the NW Suburban to 13 (remember Armstrong has already been admitted to the NW Suburban). Those numbers obviously don't work so look it appears the real fireworks will being later this fall once the Lake Conference members finally see they won't get to stay with their happy number of 12 teams. The MSHSL assignment will just be the beginning, not the end of the saga. I'm keeping an eye on the Missota as it has 3 schools (Farmington, Prior Lake, Shakopee) who probably should be playing a Lake Conference type schedule due to their growth. With only 7 teams there (Hutchinson will leave for the Wright County), that league is a prime candidate to fold.

Here are the links to the full metro realignment plan I wrote in August of 2007. It doesn't include East Ridge or Chanhassen but they could be easily slotted in my plan. Read the AAAA plan here. How I'd do AAA, AA and A is here.

Millea rehashes conference realignment ideas

John Millea put all of his thoughts from the Star Trib Preps blog together in an article on the conference realignment saga today. Nothing really new here besides some minor expansion on the idea of a "super" football conference. With somebody like Blaine or Champlin moving in. For competition maybe, but otherwise I don't think that makes any sense. This whole thing about enrollments is insane anyway. Its one thing when the difference is 100 students vs 400 students. Entirely another when its 1800 vs 2100 students. All these schools are AAAA schools and have to compete against these kids at the state level anyway. If its that big a deal, have a 16 team AAAAA class.

The idea of Chaska and Chanhassen going to the Missota is restated. Chaska was a member of the Missota until they outgrew it. Seems strange to me that they'd go back there only to eventually outgrow the league again anyway.

More updates on formation of Dakota County Conference

In addition to his previous article earlier today on Hutchinson being admitted to the Wright County Conference, John Millea added this article on the discussions around the formation of a Dakota County Conference. It has all 7 of the South division of the Lake Conference members I mentioned in the previous article. Farmington would be an 8th team. Interestingly enough, Hastings is in the discussions. They're used to going that way in section play, but a move away from the Suburban East and rival Stillwater would be a bit of a surprise.

If that league happens, then the Missota is down to 6 teams split evenly between AAAA schools and AAA schools. The Lake Conference would be down to the 7 north division schools. Shakopee and Prior Lake are natural rivals and would make sense to be Lake replacements. Northfield being 4A might be an option too, but what would happen with the AAA schools. Especially Red Wing and Holy Angels. Would Holy Angels end up in the North Suburban then as a 12th team?

Western domino falls in metro realignment saga

John Millea reporting on the Star Trib preps blog that Hutchinson has been accepted into the Wright County Conference. With Hutchinson being one of the 3 smallest schools, this leaves 7 teams in the Missota. 7 of course is not an ideal number. Where would an 8th member come from? The obvious answer is the Lake which could end up with 14 teams. Having the Lakeville schools defect to the Missota to balance out the numbers (if Edina and Hopkins get sent south to the Lake) would make 9 and 12 and make some geographical sense. Of course, this makes little sense competitively for either Lakeville school. Would Faribault leave the Big 9 (10) to go north? They'd still be stuck as a AAA school in a AAAA league but the travel might be better. Would Owatonna leave to play a bigger school schedule?

If the Lake ends up at 14 with Edina and Hopkins added (why not Hopkins to the NW Suburban and Tonka to the Lake BTW?), how about these for a couple of nice divisions divided by the river.

South: Burnsville, Eagan, Rosemount, Apple Valley, Eastview, Lakeville N, Lakeville S
North: Kennedy, Jefferson, Edina, Hopkins, Chaska, Chanhassen, Eden Prairie

Have Richfield leave the Classic Suburban and you'd have 8 in the Classic Suburban and 8 in the North division for its own league. The South becomes its own thing (called the Dakota County Conference by Millea, unfortunately MN River is already taken) and could do a non-conference football series with the Missota.

And just for humor value, here are links to the full realignment plans that I first posted in August 2007.

• The Czar's 4A Realignment Plan
• The Czar's Realignment plan for everyone else.

Scapegoats in the Conference Realignment?

More from John Millea on the conference realignment as the leagues got together again today. Read it here.

My thoughts

• Nobody can agree. HA! Should that really be a surprise.
• No surprise that no one wants to really take a hard look at this and realign everything. That'd be much too difficult and people don't like change. Its a shame the MSHSL couldn't step in and take care of that instead of forcing square pegs into the current round holes.
  
• The NW Suburban should take Wayzata for 12, but Minnetonka makes no sense for a whole bunch of reasons.
  
• Very disappointing that the Lake appears to be really stubborn here. They'd be doing their members a service by working to reach an agreement instead of sitting back and laying blame and having a bad situation for all the schools. Minnetonka and Edina and Hopkins need to go south and the Lake/Missota schools need to make something intelligent happen. Well said by Millea that the Lake needs to step up and make something good happen instead of waiting for something (almost certainly bad) to happen.
  

Next happenings in the conference realignment saga

John Millea gave some updates on the next steps in the process of the conference realignment. Some of the highlights.

• Wright County votes on Hutchinson, how it might impact the Missota.
  
• All 4 Classic Lake schools will have met the criteria for being placed in a new league with 2 league applications denied.
  
• Conference placement in October.

Read the entire entry from the Star Tribune Preps Blog here.

Armstrong moves to NW Suburban

As reported by John Millea on the Star Trib Preps Blog, Armstrong has been admitted to the NW Suburban for the 2010-2011 season. I'm surprised that came down so quickly. No surprise though as I had previously written that the NW Suburban liked Armstrong. The folks at Armstrong are really excited for the move from what I'm told.

Now that the league has 11 teams, I expect something else to happen there. 11 is a really strange number (granted the N Suburban has made it work). 12 is a nice number (add Cooper or Wayzata for instance) and would allow a nice north and south of the river split like this.

North
Centennial
Anoka
Andover
Blaine
Coon Rapids
Elk River

South
Cooper/Wayzata
Armstrong
Park Center
Osseo
Maple Grove
Champlin Park

More dominoes fall in conference realignment

To maintain the timeline of events, a note on the 2010-2001 conference realignment. As expected, the Lake Conference officially denied all of the Classic Lake members (sans Armstrong) admission. 3 of the 5 schools have now met the MSHSL criteria for the not pleasant process of the MSHSL determining where they end up. (Note I'm using 3, but the 2 links below have conflicting numbers. 1 says 2 teams, the other says 3)

Here are the bits from the Star Tribune.

• Classic Lake denied admission to Lake.
• John Millea's preps blog post with more details.
  

Pioneer Press finally weighs in on Conference Realignment

Tim Leighton of the Pioneer Press did their 1st article on the whole conference realignment saga (John Millea of the Star Trib is far more on top of this). Leighton does give a quick bit of insight into what Millea previously mentioned was going on in the east metro. Lots of schools are happy where they are so this will be a long drawn out process.

I've added a label for this topic since its been ongoing since May. You can find that in the MN Basketball Resources section on the left hand side.

Read the Pioneer Press article here.

Here are links to the realignment plans that I first posted in August 2007.

• The Czar's 4A Realignment Plan
• The Czar's Realignment plan for everyone else.

StarTrib updates on Conference Realignment

On the StarTrib preps blog, John Millea updated the conference realignment saga. I couldn't help but laugh when I saw Edina, Minnetonka and Wayzata had applied to the Lake. 12 teams already there and they don't want any part of the full blown realignment discussions amongst all the big conferences. If they take more than 5 seconds to consider that application, I'll be surprised.

Armstrong would rather be in the NW Suburban due to a better mix of teams. There aren't as many teams at the lower levels in the N Suburban which would cost some of their teams games. While the NW Suburban denied Armstrong, it wasn't because they didn't like having them in the league. They're just waiting to sort all of this out which I think is the right move.

Once again here's the realignment plan that I put together back in August of 2007 (before anybody including John Millea) and still holds today with East Ridge in the Suburban East and Chanhassen with Chaska in that section of the Lake. I also realigned the smaller conferences too.

(Czar's Note: 1/8/09. Millea also added in this post after the original post.)

Cooperation in conference realignment

John Millea of the Star Tribune reporting that 8 local AAA and AAAA conferences will convene at the MSHSL headquarters on Dec 1st to discuss the fate of the 4 remaining Classic Lake teams as of 2010-2011. Very smart by the NW Suburban to get that together . Interesting that the Mississippi 8 gets in on it. But with Cambridge-Isanti being a AAAA school that could play with the northern schools of the NW Suburban (as outlined in my realignment plan) and Rogers being part of the Elk River district and fast growing, it made sense. Ironic since it was the Mississippi 8 schools going on their own that started this. But this issue has impacted them too since Zimmerman was added after the Rum River dissolved. Now they have 9 teams which leads to schedule problems and is a real pain for football. But I don't see drastic changes in the Mississippi 8 since a major change would probably warrant discussion with the Wright County. Most likely 1 team moves. The North Suburban likely adds a 12th team (Armstrong?). I think they'll keep it simple despite the need to totally review it.

Remember the fad of big huge super-conferences at the college level when the WAC had 16 teams before splitting into the WAC and Mountain West (which caused that stupid NCAA playin, sorry Opening Round, game). We're getting there in the metro. 12 in the Lake with Chanhassen, 12 in the North Suburban (possibly), 12 in the Tri-Metro, 11 in the MCAA, 10 in the Suburban East when East Ridge joins next year and 10 in the NW Suburban.

Realignment in the Lake Conference

John Millea reporting today on the StarTrib preps blog that the new Chanhassen High School opening in fall 2009 will join the Lake Conference. No shock there as it makes for 12 teams which will make scheduling far easier. Here's how a realignment into 2 divisions (which seems almost certain) might look.

East: Apple Valley, Eastview, Lakeville N and S, Eagan, Rosemount
West: Chaska, Chanhassen, Eden Prairie, Jefferson, Kennedy, Burnsville

The East is a nice division with 3 natural rivalries. The west is tougher to create as Burnsville is out of place, but they made more sense to move west than any of the 6 teams in the east. Jefferson/Kennedy stay together along with the 3 western schools.

This is a mess for football, but for basketball it would mean 16 conference games. That would be 10 games in division for home and home vs each division foe and single games vs the other division. Those would be split 3 home and 3 away. No byes necessary and it gives the teams 4 more non-conference games to play. That doesn't seem like much, but remember now that if these teams play a 3 game holiday tournament, they only have 3 other games to play. Put that with the byes in the schedule and right now these teams are playing conference games right away in December.

Millea also mentions the Classic Lake dissolving which has been a subject for a while. These teams have tried for a while to get back in the Lake without success. The Lake will have 12 teams and be happy so don't be surprised if the MSHSL has to get involved in the end. Last August I wrote a realignment plan for all the metro schools. It doesn't include East Ridge or Chanhassen but they could be slotted in my plan. Read the AAAA plan here. How I'd do AAA, AA and A is here.